CCEB in London last night.....

[palmerlouie]

This was probably the ?ultimate? gig for me. Having been a fan of dave for so many years and owning all the elekric band albums and considering the band was officially touring when I was in diapers, I couldn?t wait to finally see this band in the flesh.

The theatre really was great, I haven?t been to this venue for so long (apart from the acoustic night last week) and it?s a very intimate yet huge theatre. The bands gear was all set up on stage and they also had loads of lighting equipment and canvas type things on which to project all the lights. Looked pretty cool.

The band came on to rapturous applause and the lights began and chick started all this weird, atmospheric synth stuff and then dave proceeded to count it ?Check Blast? , the opening track from the new album. Talk about sonic power?..man it was overwhelming. This is a serious tune, similar in vein to some of the stuff from ?Inside Out?, loads of ensemble lines and phrases that the whole band played. Dave was, as we all know, outstanding. The drums sounded fantastic and were miked up beautifully.

The first half was dedicated to the new album and was a great show with all the lighting and musical interludes with chick playing the synth stuff that is supposed to represent space. I love the songs from the new album, my favourite stuff of theirs.

Then came the second half, dedicated to older music. They played ?Eternal Child? from ?Eye of the Beholder? (with frank ripping it on the acoustic guitar), C.T.A, and Got a Match and then encore was Blue Miles. Got a Match was definitely the highlight. The solos taken by frank gambale and dave were untterly breathtaking. Even john pattitucci had to catch him breath and pick up his jaw. Frank is a monster!!! And this was the best I have ever seen dave play. The dynamics were ridiculous, the flow was amazing, and some of the things he did on his solo in Got a Match were just fantastic. I mean really really fantastic?..i cant say it enough, just wonderful playing. And his bebop playing, IMO, really excels. It was like fast bebop for 20 mins. And when playing the accents and ensemble figures with the band, which often last like 10 bars!!, the dynamics from dave within half a bar are incredible. And the way he accents is great. For example in Got a Match, there were accents that he would play pretty much the same way the first two times or so, then when it came round again, he just played it slightly differently, perhaps with a bass drum and cymbal powerfully on a different note than before, and it totally changes the phrase!! NO ONE accents and phrases with a band like this monster!
This was undoubtedly the best concert I have ever seen. And although im only 18 I have seen sooooo many considering. It was certainly the best of this type anyway?..i.e it would be silly to compare this to a tower of power gig, but even so, I enjoyed this more!!! One thing that really gets me is how dave (and all of these top guys) are always ON! Theres no, ?oh im in a pissed off mood so I played pissed off? or ?im not feeling too good so I played bad??.its just ON ever single night and its always perfect, always amazing. Dominic Miller said the same about vinnie?.he said ?one thing that I love about vinnie is he?s always ON!?

But, what got to me at the gig, was how a couple of my friends really didn?t like it. Now these guys are very good friends of mine and one is a sax player, the other a bass player. They have been to see mike stern, weckls band etc etc and came out of those concerts going ?yeah man that was so cool, amazing? bla bla bla. Basically they loved it.??yet when the came to see probably the best possible band of that genre (i.e complex, virtuostic, instrumental jazz/fusion ? The CCEB) they didn?t like it and one of them proceeded to slam these guys!! Now I know that I am particularly passionate about these types of musicians and music, and want to be a professional musician, and be the best I can possibly be and practice all day long bla bla, and perhaps my two friends don?t, and obviously not liking something is totally cool, and everyone it entiltled to an opinion, but for the sax player to slam these guys is ridiculous. Especially considering that he is at music college and pretty much does want to do it professionally, yet does no practice and spends all his money on computer games!!! I personally would never criticise anything I couldn?t do. For example I went to see wayne shorter last year, and I personally didn?t enjoy the gig, but I would never criticise it, because I CANT DO IT. Brian blade was up there with wayne, and im NOT, so whos the loser. To me it would be stupid for me to slam someone, when I couldn?t do it myself. I could say I didn?t particularly like it, or don?t really understand it, but not criticise it.

So how can this guy sit there, having been to a weckl band gig (which in my opinion isn?t as good as chicks band ? due to members and mainly the writing) and then say to me ?oh yeah but its just widdling. They?re all just playing 50 notes where there could have been 10.? WHAT??..??? I could understand him sayng this about weckls band or franks band, because they are small fusion bands that perhaps do just blow all night (which I don?t mind J) Its just like going to a Steely Dan gig and saying ?where are all the chops????the electric band is complex music, that?s the point, and he loved the other fusion stuff, yet this is a better band and the writing is far superior. Which is why frank is playing small clubs in italy and very unfortunately not getting huge audiences, and chick sells out this huge theatre last night and gets 2 standing ovations.

I just got annoyed cause it was less of an opinion that he was passing and more of an ignorant judgement, and IMO based on his own inadequacies as a sax player. I was thinking ?can you get up there and sit in with that band? Can u play like that? If u can, fine then you would seem to have a right to criticise, but if u cant play like that or anywhere near that, then shut the fuck up.? If it was Michael brecker sitting next to me saying these things then you?d have to respect that. I mean, I couldn?t get up there and sit in with that band or play ANYTHING like dave, but that?s why I would never slam them/him and is also why I didn?t slam brian blade?. because although I didn?t like it that much, I couldn?t have done it.

I think it?s partly to do with the English attitude. This sax player, IMO, has been influenced by the people/teachers at his college recently and all they do all day long on the ?Jazz Course? is play bebop and standards. Jazz is a big term and encompasses way more much music. I rekon people have turned him off from any sort of virtuostic stuff or having great technique (which just allows you to express yourself better). He used to love Michael brecker but now just says ?yeah but its just a load of technique and you don?t need all that?. It?s a shame because now his path has been changed from trying to be the best he could possibly be to being yet another average sax player who might be playing in a support band at Ronnie scotts, while it?s the American acts who are the real deal and the main attraction. Why??because they?re better. That?s why we don?t win at sport?..its like ?oh try better next time,,,,,,nevermind? but with the Americans (and other nations of course) you can see it in their eyes?.they are so much more competitive. Technique IS important??.its like a tennis player saying ?oh I don?t need to learn a backhand?..i?ll just run round and hit a forehand?

Wow, this really was a long rant. Sorry guys. But I had to get it off my chest. I just spent most of the second half baffled and trying to work out why??and I almost was defending these guys cause they have worked their BALLS OFF trying to be the best, and have succeeded and work hard bringing this music to the world, and then you get this guy in the third row mouthing off??..lol?..Let me know what you think.

[Joachim]

should I only criticize something, if I can make it better ?
I don't think so.
And most music is something, what you CANNOT MEASURE.
If they didn't like the music - where is the problem ?
perhaps you missunderstand something by listening music ?
is it important, how difficult it is to play certain styles of music ?
If it is important for you, how difficult they play, okay -
but if this fact doesn't matter for me ?

I like listening to the CCEB - BUT, I'am a drummer and most of the drummer always like the TECHNICAL aspect, as do I.

but if I need some help from music, because I'am depressed, or if I need something for other FEELINGS,
I would never listen to CCEB.

perhaps they play as good, as no other could do and they play extremly intensiv -
but !!!
I'am speaking for myself, i feel nothing by listening most of the so called fusion music.
got a match has something, but listen to bach, it's not so special as you think
and the third tune on the second part of the record has something for me too.
so, the first record was good.
but most of the other following records ?
perhaps it makes sense, to ask, why they play 50 notes instead of 10 ?

I just like most the technical abilities.

but for me, it's not easy too, to answer the question, where is the boarder between technic and feeling.
it depends to the individual.

perhaps, in YOUR oppinion, they are great, but other individuals like different things.
but if they are just envious, then your feeling are comprehensible to me.

[palmerlouie]

absolutely. but he does (or perhaps now did) like all the fusion stuff....if i was taking a classical violinist to see CCEB and he didnt like it, you could understand it.

his opinion is valid and is just as important as anyone elses.....but his attitude was a little ignorant, thats all.

and also, how come its ok to be virtuostic in classical music?.....its necessary in classical music to express yourself, or the composers music.

to leave out having fantastic technique means you just end up being "another" drummer or musician. LOADS of people have a nice feel or great time....you have to have it all these days. unless you are steve gadd or jeff porcaro who had a unique and individual way of hitting drums and placing notes....(which is natural to them and cant be taught), then surely you gotta have it all???

[FuseU1]

I'm right there with ya, LP [& also Joe for that matter].

Just shrug it off, man. Don't waste your valuable time & precious brain power resources on such silliness as other peeps opinions, as it pertains to relatively less important things.

The problem at large, i feel, is the liberalization, or 'dumbing down,' of music in general, of which people who 'run' school systems & also the media are largely responsible. ESP a lot of popular so-called music. & that's just MY humble opin. ;c)

Now, a piece of music does not have to have the complexity of the average CCEB/DWB tune to move me. However, as a listener AND a musician, I agree w your stance on all counts. People who dismiss certain styles or music simply because it's performed at an extremely high & proficient level used to really peeve me. It's like saying everyone should wear the same color & uniform, no one should excel, no one should be unique, & no one should strive. But [& forgive me] this is flat out "un-American" if you ask me. And quite frankly, some are just flat-out intimidated by it. Both ego-wise & maybe even the threat of competition & job security. I wouldn't necessarily chalk it up to 'a US or UK' thing, but I hear ya. & i know the UK has some really fine musicians AW.

Dave Weckl & Vinnie are in a league of their own. Neither is better than the other, simply because each is SO uniquely individual, & greatly gifted & accomplished, & at the top of his game field. Not to turn this once again into the VC vs DW thing, as I feel both are two of if not THE best. I tend to look at it as a 'VC AND DW' thing, not a 'VC OR DW' thing. And of course there are others at [or near ;c)] this extremely advanced level AW. Maybe even some guys who aren't even "famous" too. And this is always going to threaten a certain amount of people. Or, it just goes over their heads & they don't understand or "get" it.
But no big deal, everyone likes what they like, & you can't really change that. But also don't begrudge them if they don't, because it may well be for this reason.

On this same "other hand," I have a musician freind of mine that virtually drove me crazy with his cynical, jazz-nazi, "i hate everyone who doesn't like jazz or complex music because that means they're just plain stupid" attitude. So, you see, we can get caught in the middle of extremist ways of thinking [always an undesireable thing].

Don't sweat it, guy. Don't let it get to ya. Keep a little "light" about it. Let em think what they think [they're going to anyway - unless you can help them to see things a bit more broadly], just don't let it affect YOUR dispositon, & keep forging ahead in your personal musical preferences, mate. It can only make you a more valuable attribution. And play your paying pop gigs too. [img]wink.gif[/img]

[PS - Brecker would NEVER say something like that, altho he might express a musical preference or two. That guy has all the Coltrane prowess & all the passion & fire all day long, AND he can just play 3 notes, or hold ONE at the right time & inflection, that'll turn ya into a weeping heep on the floor. I think you already know what I'm talking about.] ;c)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 13, 2004 11:06 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[peter c]

Louie,

This is an old routine and it will never
end. They said it about Chick and they said
it about MO and they said it about...

Forget them! You know the truth and that's
what matters. When someone blows, let's
appreciate them, not matter what anyone
says! That's what real music is all about!

[img]cool.gif[/img]